Question

I have a hard time understanding the subject of fictitious forces. Let's discuss a few examples:

1) I'm sitting inside a vehicle which is accelerating in a straight line. I feel like someone is pushing me to the seat. So, on the one hand, I'm told that this happens according to the third Newton's law: this pressure is the result of me pushing the seat as a reaction to the seat pushing me (because it is accelerating with the same acceleration as the car). On the other hand, these forces are acting on different objects and I'm told that there is another fictitious force acting on me in an opposite direction to the acceleration. So what is right? And if there is a fictitious force, then why some call it a "math trick" when they are real and I can feel them?

2) I do not understand why some call centrifugal force a fictitious force. The earth is pulling the earth with its "invisible" string called gravitation. That's why the moon is still there. And this is the centripetal force. However the moon is also pulling the earth according to the Newton's third law, and that's why we have tides. This is the centrifugal force. So why it is fictitious? What it has to do with frame of reference? When we observe this in non-inertial frame of reference (such as the moon), does it simply mean that we can't call it anymore a reaction force according to the Newton's third law? But why if it is virtually the reaction force?

3) Accelerating elevator - similar to the first example - let's say the elevator is accelerating upwards. So we get that N? =m(g+a), and that's the same as me pushing the floor. That is why I feel heavier. Then why some add to here the fictitious force?

I will appreciate any answer.

Answer 1

1) You surely feel the pressure when you accelerate. Whether you attribute it to fictitious forces or other forces depends on your choice of the "reference frame" (vantage point). From the viewpoint of your body's reference frame, which is not an inertial frame, there exist fictitious forces (inertia and/or centrifugal and/or Coriolis' force) that are pushing your body towards the seat. In an inertial reference frame, such as the vantage point of people who stand on the sidewalk and watch you, the pressure is exerted by the seat because it's accelerating i.e. pushing (you are pushing on the seat as well, by the third Newton's law) and there are no additional fictitious forces. Both of these descriptions are OK but the description from the inertial systems (e.g. the sidewalk system) is described by simpler, more universal equations. Without a loss of generality, we may describe all of physics from these frames and these frames never force us (and never allow us) to add any fictitious forces. The frame of your (accelerating) body may be considered "unnatural" and therefore all the forces that appear in that frame are artifacts of the frame's being unnatural, and therefore they are called "fictitious". They may be avoided.

2) Centrifugal forces are the textbook examples of fictitious forces; they have to be added if you describe the reality from the viewpoint of rotating systems. They are avoided if you use non-rotating frames. However, the tides have nothing to do with centrifugal forces. The tidal forces appear because the the side of the Earth that is further from the Moon is less strongly attracted to the Moon than the side that is closer to the Moon. In other words, the tidal forces totally depend on the non-uniformity of the gravitational field around the Moon